PEPTIDE EXPERT: WHAT’S ACTUALLY IN THOSE ONLINE PEPTIDES?

Peptides, Fear, And Online Dogpiles

SPEAKER_01 0:19

I'm pretty excited, and we've talked before at some of the conferences, but uh and I I watch your podcast. Oh just to learn because I'm into peptides and all that stuff. So um, and you're you seem to always be coming up with some of the newer stuff and getting some great people on there that are in it. So it's good to learn from it.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

I just um did a couple videos. I don't know what I'm gonna post somewhere. It's just like, you know, I was like, I'm just tired of like, you know, and I was like, oh peptides are dangerous, and that I was like, okay, enough. And so I did a video on like, hey, look, and I and I I kept it fair. It's like, look, here's the criticisms like you know, Dr. Mike and whatever Atia are saying it's like, here's what they're right about, and here's all the shit they're wrong about. Because they just they just blanket it, right? And they have such a big following that yeah there are people who these they can help, yeah, that are just like, oh, I heard it was dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Like, yeah, just like Atia even he he says, you know, hormone replacement's good for you, but then he takes that back, you know, and but he's like he's in with like an institution where he can't say exactly and be free. It's almost like you talk to these news, you know, the different news stations, and they can only say such things. So they kind of hold back, and like yeah, Dr. Mike, we've we've gone over it a few times on our podcast with like he's a family practice doc. And does he like really tell you? I'm like, yeah, they they might research some stuff that's in papers, but does he really know what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

No, because he's clearly not prescribing it, right? Yeah. And is he even is he practicing? Is he actively practicing?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

He says like he's practicing, but dude, is he really? No, he's driving a Ferrari stuff.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Yeah, like dude, you you you you found a lane, you crushed it, I'm mad at you, dude. But I think to come out and be like, oh, the dangerous is like, all right, whatever, dude. Yeah. And I think that's why I want to do that that video on like, hey, look, here's the things like look, I'm not gonna sit here and say they're like, oh, if he says this, great. Like, okay, one of the ones was like, um, not even Ben Lynch, wasn't him? So it was like, oh, well, you don't know what's in the vial. I'm like, well, you don't know what's in the vial if you're getting it from uh Shanghai's greatest peptides, right? And it's like it you may not, but if you're getting it from a doc and a component pharmacy, there's several steps there to make sure that's the right thing in the vial, right? And I think that's the difference, right? Yeah. Well, that other one is like, oh, there's no human research. Okay, like you just put every single peptide in there, and it's like like you never heard of TA, not enough one or a test mark.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Anyway, it's a thing, and like yeah, like Huberman uses some of them, but then he also says he's like, There's no human research, or like a T they they all like are like through that whole like there's no human research.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Social media is an echo chamber because they'll say that, and everyone who agrees with that just kind of piles on, like, oh I knew it was bullshit. Yeah, and then you know, and then sometimes someone will pop. It's funny to see sometimes a like a longevity doc will pop in and say something, they just get freaking dogpiled. I'm just like, oh yeah, I should have said it. This isn't the place.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, like I think what one of the things uh I don't know, we had a doctor doctor in physical therapy, and she talked about dry needling, and people are like, you know, and she talked about how how it compares to acupuncture, and all the acupuncturists like are like, it's the same thing. And I'm like, all right, it's the same thing. It's not they're like, you gotta state that album.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

It's like what you know, like man, the internet's uh social media is a is a prison yard in some ways, man. We got all we all got our little gangs, right? Just like stick together and sometimes it comes together, and then sometimes it's a food fight, man.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, Rogan says it right. He's like, you just gotta like kind of let it let it be its own thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah, and I'm learning, I gotta get better at it, too. Because like sometimes I'll get Oh, you take it to heart. Or I just I just make time to like, oh, you know, you're not gonna sometimes hide behind your keyboard today. Like, I'm gonna like call you out and I'll write something back. Like, someone said something like, I did a video on the NAD or something like that. Yeah, some comment. He's like, oh like I think he said something like, oh, this is so incomplete. And I was like, okay, enough, right? I was like, you know what, dude? I was like, well, maybe you can get up early in the morning and do a podcast or stay late after work, or maybe take one of your weekends and make your own long form freaking video and all the shit. If not, if you're not gonna do it, then basically STFU and I put the clown emoji. And I was like, I shouldn't have done that. That was so bad. I haven't taken it down yet. I probably should. It's just a little too much. But yeah, sometimes it's like, look, and I feel like it's uh I I call it um it's kind of like the schoolyard equivalent of like punching the biggest bully. It's like, look, if you see what I did to this person, you know, don't freaking do it, but it's just we gotta I gotta do better, man. All good, man. So uh what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Just kind of uh everything because like I I do peptides, uh longevity, I do all that stuff, and then yeah, um, and you know, like whenever my friends have issues, I don't deal with the whole, like, you know, with my patients, I try to treat them as a whole, but like still, like when people have complicated situations, I send them your way because I'm like, I know you're a good naturopath and go through all the steps for them and like and possibly provide them with what they need, you know. I don't want to just be like, oh, I'll give you some hormones that's gonna fix the situation, and then it's like, you know, and they probably need more than one thing. So for sure, for sure. Yeah,

Picking The Right HRT Method

SPEAKER_01 5:52

yeah. So what one of the big big things, you know, like things people talk about is HRT. And you know, everyone asks, like, how should I do it? Should I inject it? Should I get pellets? Should I do creams? Like, what's your preference? Uh and like do SEPQ, do intramuscular, yeah. There's like so many.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

And people ask me, I'll just say yes, yeah, because it's different for everyone, yeah. You know, because at the end of the day, it's like you want to optimize your hormones, right? But there's pros and cons to them all, right? So like if you're okay, so let's just kind of like take it like from those three, right? So like topical creams, right? So pros are no sharp pony object. Yeah, some people are not trying to inject themselves, right? So that's a big thing. Well, and then some people where it could be like, oh, they may feel better with the topical cream, right? And so, and I like I do like the fact that with the topical cream, you can get more steadier levels because you're doing it daily, right? Yeah, okay, that sounds good. But the thing about the creams is like, well, you're gonna you possibly could absorb it differently every single day, depending on like the temperature, how vigorously you rubbed it, yeah, you know, um body clean, you know, skin layers, things like that. You know, it could be different absorption different times a day. And then the other thing, especially when it comes to testosterone, it's like, well, one, it's like it, if you don't wash your hands thoroughly, like you can spread it to everything, right? If you I wonder if you took a blue light on like someone that's doing testosterone cranes and like did like one of those CSI and you're like, oh, it's right over there. There's testosterone on the dog, right? You know. Uh, and so you think about that, but also because of the way it absorbs, like sometimes they have more androgenic side effects, right? Acne, oily, skin, all that, right? And I think the females, they I tend to see more. Yeah, right. And it's not every single case, but you know, there's there's a time and a place for everything, right? Now, injectables, okay, injectables, you know, that needle goes in, you inject an intramuscular, you're getting, you're getting it all.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Right. You're getting that. But again, I always say sharp pointy object, always risk of pain, tenderness, hitting a you know, hitting a capillary, something like that, bruising. But I do like, you know, you get all of it, but there's also the fact that it's basically pharmacokinetics and dynamics, right? You inject it, it's gonna go here, it's gonna come down, it's gonna go up. So you have this seesaw. Some people can ride the wave like a pro surfer. Some people like, dude, like I feel great the first four or five days, and I crash out towards the end. And so there's that piece of it. And sometimes because of that elevation in levels, especially when you're talking testosterone, they have a higher risk of it spilling into estradiol or spilling into DHT, or what about their hemoglobin hematocrit, right? And so it's case by case. And like pellets are interesting because I I do pellets and I I see the I see the thing. And so look, pellets, once it's in, it's in, you're good for if it's female, three to four months, a guy, five, six months, you're done. So you can't get more convenient than that, right? Yeah, and also I feel like it's it's kind of like uh man, remember back in the day, um on-demand TV, like it's like, okay, when you're in, you get under stress, you're working out, circulation increases, you pull more of that pellet. Yeah, that's great. And because it has more of a steady state kind of absorption, you tend to see less side effects, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Downside of a pellet is I'm still making a minor surgical, your plastic surgical. To you, it's like you probably do a pellet with your eyes pulls, right? For me, I'm just always like, man, I hope this goes like it's like I remember first started doing pellets. I used to call it like poke and pray. Like, I'm gonna put this, I'm gonna poke, put it in, I'm gonna pray it doesn't come out or something goes wrong because there's always that risk of that. We take a lot of steps to make sure that. But once it's in, it's in, it's in.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Even for me, because I I do pellets in my office, and it's you know, because you're supposed to put it like right under the skin, but it's like you you gotta find that right space or it starts to like kind of protrude out.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Do you do uh guys too? Yeah, yeah, it's the worst, it's the worst experience in the world. Like if they're like lean or just like, oh god, like why can't you? Here's a one time in life. I'm like, dog, why can't you be fat? Because like it's in my easier idea.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

In my own thing, I I gotta do a hundreds. I couldn't do the two hundreds. The two hundreds felt like like a big grapefruit in my back for like months. Well the first one, yeah. The first one was the well, was it I don't know if I had my nurse my nurse practitioner and my brother did the same training, so I forgot I think it was my brother that put it in, but they made you put it in the butt. And like like four or five months later, I drove to Cali, and man, it was fucking painful. I was like, it should be like gone. So I've done love handles ever since, but yeah, I've definitely like I did the lower dose as you get leaner, but it's still you get swallowed.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

It's a it's a workout, man, especially the guy's leaner. Even the like kind of that flank love handle area, they're leaner, it's still a challenge, right? It's still like geez, you know. Um, so it really depends on. So now it's like I look at the person's kind of like body habitat, like how they're built, it's like this is a better place, and this will be a better thing. But you know, at the end of the day, it's like you gotta be smart with the dosing. Because once it's in, it's in. You can okay, you can surgically remove it, but that's the only way. That's a lot. And there are some schools of thought that if you like say you insert the pellet and a month later, like, I don't feel anything. I mean, you could do like a little booster pellet if necessary. So there's schools of thoughts on that, but you know, I think it really depends on the person. Like, if someone, you know, is like, look, they're struggling to inject every week or they travel a lot, pellets might be the answer. Yeah. So I don't really have a favorite. I I don't do a to a ton of topicals. I don't do a lot of creams, but pellets injections, it's really depend on the price.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

I also think with the topical compliance, it like, especially for men, it's gonna be like men don't like putting creams on, you know. If we could like wash our bodies and hairs with one thing, that's all we're gonna do, you know. Yeah, there's the majority 80%, then there's the 20% that'll be pretty much on it. So yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

That topical is gonna go away pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

It's it's compliance and all that too. So it's always, you know, it's it's gonna be the person. Yeah, you know, we try to give options and you know, and let the person say, Hey, and a lot of times, like sometimes, especially when they first start, yeah, sometimes injections are easy. It's like you're just starting hormones, this is your first kind of rodeo. Yeah, because at least with the injections, if you're like, uh, you know, I don't know about this, you can pivot to another, you know, you know, way of dosing it. But once that pellets there, I'm like, we gotta ride this out.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah, you know, because a lot of people like when you have it, if you haven't had any other treatments, I think once you place that pellet the first time, their numbers shoot through the roof. Oh, yeah. But uh, if you're getting like uh injections, it like you might not get to the level you need to with it.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

You know, I always think, man, because okay, if I right now I'm I'm twice a week, right? I just found it's helped me control some of like hemoglobin nomatocrits, some other things like twice a week, and I feel a little bit more steady with it. But I started thinking, like, man, if I don't miss a week, that's 104 injections a year. Yeah. Over 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

That's a lot of oh my gosh, man. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

So you know, like I when I got back on the train, I didn't do because I went off of it, my wife trying to get pregnant and stuff. So like, and then I was going back on. I did all this research. I was like, you know, daily injections, sub Q injections. So did that, and I'm like, dude, that this is gonna throw them into an abscess. Thinking like a surgeon, I'm like, this is oil right under the skin. I'm like, that's a little too much. Although I do it with peptides, but this is like oil, it's a lot different. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I I get it. There's there's studies. They do a lot of it in um in in Europe, like the UK. Like that's where I first kind of learned about it, the CQ testosterone injections. But at the same way, I was like, dude, that's a lot, especially if someone is doing a higher dose of it. Like, oh, some people like, oh, I want to do twice a week. It's like that's a lot, yeah. And that's a lot of injections and the oil. So like I just worry about like, is it gonna come in access or is it gonna cause any fibrosis over time? Yeah, just not the thing. So I'm like, yeah, you know, I not again, some people do it. Yeah, not a biggest fan of it myself, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Have you what if have you tried any of the oral forms, like the trochies or stuff that they're coming

Why Labs Look Great But You Feel Bad

SPEAKER_01 14:04

out with?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

I've had a few patients try Kaisotrex, which is the oral, and mixed results with it, right? Um so I did it for a couple months and I was like, oh, okay. This is you know, my levels went pretty good. They actually um actually they went really high. I was like, oh, that's great, that's wow. And I wasn't even a high dose of it. I I realized that you know I don't need as much testosterone as it's weird. I used to need a lot more, and now I don't need as much. And it's like am I sleeping better, I'm drinking less alcohol, I think there's a lot of factors going to it.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

And had a few patients that or are have done great on it and still done great on it. I have some patients that are like, yeah, I'd rather do something else, right? I think hormones are subjective, and I think there's more to it than giving the hormone, right? And the kind of analogy, the way I like to think about it is when I test your levels, yeah, it's kind of like like this here. It's like um, I'm testing what's in the best analogy I can give, I'm testing what's in the pot, what's in the soup, right? So this is what's in your serum, the circulating levels of hormones, but it's not telling me what's going in your cells. Yeah, that's what's going in the bowl that the person's eating, right? You can have a whole pot of something, but if they can't get in the bowl to taste it, it's like, what is it doing? Yeah, and so if they have these things we talk about in longevity medicine all day, if they have high inflammation, they have high oxidative stress, they have mitochondrial dysfunction, yeah, they can have awesome testosterone levels and amazing estrogen levels and hormone levels, but they feel like shit because it's not getting in the cell. The receptors are trash because that receptor has so much oxidative stress around it or inflammation, it's like, how is it supposed to work? You know, it's like the bowl has a hole in the bottom of it, right? Yeah. And so I think there's the piece where how does a person feel? Yeah. And if they're not feeling well, what is it? Yeah. And that's the challenge. That's kind of the art of it, right? Because it's easy to look at a number, like, oh, you have a thousand testosterone. And then you probably see it. You look at their labs, like, oh, this is the mate. You just think they're about to bust through the walls in here and they're about to do backflips, and they're gonna, you know, they're coming in with a cake, they're celebrating me and they're coming in like, dude, I feel I don't feel well, you know, what is that, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah, that gets tough, yeah. Yeah, and like even, you know, some of my friends that are PCPs and stuff, like they they're like, Oh, my, I'm like, you know, when they're talking about fatigue, anxiety, like brain fog, and I'm like, have you tested your labs? And they just go by snore questum numbers. I'm like, well, and that just recently changed from they put 250 to 1200 as being normal, because before it was like 200 to 700 was normal, and anything above that, you were abnormal. So they were like, Yeah, I'm I'm like 600, you know, uh but I'm like you feel like shit, so you gotta like just be like see where you're deficient in. So like but like you were getting to like you know, it's not just the hormone deficiency, but it's you know, like you could fix one thing, but what what are your you know, like Huberman has his the the new book protocols, and that's basically like your foundations that you go through with your patients.

Foundations Before Hormones Or Peptides

SPEAKER_01 17:09

What are your main points you want to hit with them before even starting talking about hormone replacement?

SPEAKER_00 17:16

You know, it's funny, I was thinking as you were saying that I was like, man, I need to like codify it, right? So it's kind of like I know, but it's like I don't I should make like a Jones method or something like that. It was like this what we check, right? Yeah, um, but if someone's coming in and they're like, hey, I don't feel well, and they're like they're thinking about their hormones, yeah. Before we start thinking about here's your injection, here's your prescription or whatever, have you, even with peptides too. Yeah, it's like okay, we need what's going on here, right? So it's like I need to see kind of what the environment is, what's going like, how do you live your life, right? Yeah. And how do you feel? What are we doing or not doing? So we'll start with like, okay, well, how's your sleep? Right. Yeah. Because sleep is a foundation for so many things.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

So, like, okay, sleep is trash, you're difficult to fall asleep, you know, staying asleep. That's gonna affect so many things. You can't recover, you can't, your own natural hormone production is decreased. You have brain fog, you're not clearing out the glymphatic system, it's not working the way it's supposed to, right? And all these things can that lever needs to be optimized, right? Yeah, sleep's challenging, but we want to know. Yeah, and it's like, all right, well, what are you putting in your body? Like, what are you eating? Like, how's your diet, right? Because if someone's doing the standard American diet, or if they're, you know, part look again, a good old-fashioned every now and then, great. But if you're like, hey, I'm drinking four or five drinks a night and more than that on the weekends, well, that's you're already fighting against yourself. Yeah, and then these simple things, like even some people you realize it surprises me how many people don't drink enough water. It's almost like a hilarious amount of water. And it's like, okay, well, let's start with that. Yeah, then we want to look at like some lifestyle things, like how's stress, right? Because if you know, if you're look, we're physicians. Stress is it is what it is, right? It's like, all right, stress has become part of life. It's like I know this is until I retire, is what it is. But if stress is dysregulated or stress is elevated, how's your cortisol? It's probably dysregulated. If your cortisol is off, what's that doing? Cortisol is anabolic. How is that affecting your workouts and even your body composition and your mental function? Yeah, so stress is big. And so we've got all these main, you know, these foundational things, their diet, their sleep, their stress. Yeah, and then simple things like okay, and I always said this on a few podcasts, it's like, okay, the person comes in and is like, Are you working out? They're like, Nah, yeah, you need to be working out four times a week. And it's like, dude, I I walked in here and I told you I feel like shit, I'm tired. Like, you can't just say go to the gym four times a week. Yeah, but that that signal, that stimulus to work out, that's that resistance training, yeah, it's a potent, a powerful longevity medicine because every time you put that muscle against resistance, you're releasing these proteins called myokines, right? Yeah, and they're like, I call them good cytokines, right? And myokines can be anti-inflammatory, they can help with BDNF, your brain derived neurotrophic factor, they can do all these amazing things for you, but they don't turn on until you put that muscle against resistance. And it doesn't mean go bench press 300 pounds or go do some insane deadlift, which seems cool. But yeah, even push-ups, right? Even doing some bodyweight squats are going to help with that, or even like, okay, if you want to do more than body weight, pick start light, right? But you want to start moving and start doing things. So these are those foundational things that all these things we want to do don't work if you don't have a good foundation.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah, yeah. And you know, like with hormone replacement, you're gonna improve your exercise, but you got to get back into that exercise pathway. And that that's a common question we get whenever we talk on stuff on our reels with social media. When you talk about peptides, they're like, What peptides should be should I be on? You know, that's a pretty common question. I'm like, uh, of what are you trying to treat? You know, that's a big one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

I mean, it's like, okay, well, before we even talk about that, yeah, before okay, so you want to talk about their goals, but also like, what are you already doing? Yeah, because we have to set some realistic expectations when we're talking to people. Because if you're like, hey, I want to, I know it's extreme, but it's like, man, I want to build some muscle. Yeah, good, great, all right. How many work out?

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

And it's like, okay, I do this. And it's like, okay, I work out three times a week. Have you been increasing the weights you've been doing? Like, are you are you doing hard workouts? Yeah, like I get it, dude. Sometimes I mail my workout. I mail when I mail them shits in, I mail them in. I'm here, but I'm yeah, I'm doing enough just as I slip, check my box, I'm here. And sometimes you want to go in there and push yourself, right? But you want to make sure you you have that concept of like a progressive overload, right? Or constantly like challenging yourself.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

And then it's like, well, what's your diet?

Protein, Processed Foods, And Plant-Based Reality

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Like, are you eating enough pro and I know and we're protein crazy right now. The world's protein. I've seen everything I've been seeing, protein ramen noodles, uh things that you don't even think about having protein in there. Now everyone's got adding protein to things, right? But you want to have enough protein for that leucine to activate mTOR and to build muscle, right? We need that.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

And and a lot of it like with Like the whole protein thing, it's you know, just looking at the stuff, it's a lot of it's becoming more processed, and it's like, how much of it are you gonna absorb? You know, yeah, the protein chips, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Looking at you, protein uh Doritos, uh it's just wild, right? It's just like, yeah, I don't know if I'm like I'm getting my protein, but I'm also eating, you know, a potato chip, right? So it's kind of look, look, I'm sure this podcast is sponsored by Quest Chips, Dr. Panel, just kidding. Um they are pretty good. So yeah. But no, I I I I get it. It's just like making sure it's like um I did a quick little reel. I don't know if I've released it yet, just talking about plant-based diets, right? Yeah. And how this assumption that okay, let me piss off the vegans real quick.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

So this assumption that if you're gonna- We've done it quite a few times because I a lot of people ask me about like what I think of all the Netflix shows that are like pro-vegan, which is their propaganda, yeah, which they've stopped because like they all sounded the same.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

It it is, right? But it's like just because you can have a vegan diet, but what if you're eating a bunch of vegan donuts? Yeah, um, vegan wings, all these things here where it's processed food, that is still unhealthy, right? That's still not good for your cholesterol profile, still not good for your heart health. So just because it's plant-based, but it's like what types of plants we're eating, right? Yeah, so I think there's some common sense that we need to kind of apply to that. It's like great, you know, especially if you're there's a time and a place where it's like, okay, maybe I want to bring more vegetables into my diet, a little shift to a more plant-based diet for a period of time, whatever have you.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

But I think just saying I'm vegan, I'm vegetarian doesn't mean you're healthy.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah, my brother used to laugh at me. I was like, I'm we vegan for lunch, unless I find a good piece of protein, I'll add it in there, you know? Yeah, but um well, I I got different meal plans, so I was like, I'll try, I couldn't stay on it for long. But it's also like, yeah, trying to build muscle. And you know, what Netflix shows you is like this bodybuilder that's on a vegan diet, like, yeah, one one percent of like the population.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

And then a whole lot of beans, man. Yeah, a whole lot of black beans, you know, things like that. And you know, there's a there's a place for it. And if it's yeah the right diet for that person, they feel great on it, don't knock it. Yeah. Again, there is a balance to it. Again, I'm more look, I'm more, you know, I'm gonna have meat, man. It's like yeah, I struggle eating a meal that doesn't have meat. Yeah, like even like breakfast, I'm like, oh, there's eggs. There's you know, like, where's I need something?

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah, I I look for the protein. I'm like, I can leave the rest of it. I try to go more carnivore.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, so it's it's leave the rest that way. It's what it is, man. You know, um, but you know, I don't knock anyone. I want people to do what's best for them. Yeah, there's a lot of genetics that go into place with that. There's a lot of, but if you're eating that healthy diet and you feel good and your gut health is great, and that's oh man, I forgot about

Gut Health And Inflammation As Root Causes

SPEAKER_00 24:48

that. Yeah, gut health is essential, right? So because if you're sitting dealing with dysbiosis, gut inflammation, gut infections, yeah, that makes it really hard to be healthy. Yeah, extremely hard, right? Yeah, not just from a you know what you see visually, but just if we produce so many, you know, so many are our neurotransmitters, serotonin in the gut, you know, anti-inflammatory, all these things from the gut. Yeah, and without that, we struggle.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yeah, yeah, and it's made more sense because when I was doing general surgery, like I was like, why are these Crohn's people like they they were, you know, their head was just never there, you know, and that's the whole thing. Their gut is just like, and it's not their fault, they're their gut's just like fighting against them. So it's like it's kind of what will they absorb?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah, right. When it comes to, you know, it's like you're eating healthy, you know, you're trying to eat healthy, and you're taking the supplements, but how are you absorbing this stuff with you know the gut is just destroyed like that? So it becomes a challenge, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah. So no, I I I think clearing the guts is like one of the most important things. So um, yeah, definitely important. Although, like, I wish I could get more into it, I just don't have time to like yeah, that's why I send him your way. No, I think that that inflammation, I'm like, you know, one of my friends, he's got big issues with arthritis and stuff now, and he's like mid-50s, and I'm like, I'm like, dude, and you know, drinking's probably a little too much, and and also it's the gut inflammation from it. So much.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

I mean, arthritis is amazing because when we and even when I was a med student, man, I was like, man, you know, it's like you look at arthritis and you look at what the traditional treatments are for arthritis, yeah. Okay, yeah, continue for PT, great. And then it's anti-inflammatory. Yeah. It's like, okay, when it, you know, start with some omega-3s, yeah, you know, and then there's corticosteroids, and then there's oral anti-inflammatories, and you you anti-inflammatory, anti-inflammatory until the point where it's like, okay, now let's replace the knee, right?

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

And I started thinking like, well, if everything we do to treat arthritis isn't anti-inflammatory, shouldn't we be treating the inflammation or trying to reduce the inflammation or start looking at that as the root cause? Yeah. And how can we actually work on reducing this person, not just putting a band-aid on it, like actually putting the fire out?

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

And that's why we look at well, the diet, even natural supplementation. But this is where when we think peptides, yeah, we start thinking like regenerative injections, PRP, this is where it makes the difference because we're going after the cause of it, which is inflammation. It's an immune system thing, right? Yeah, it's immune system dysfunction is overproduction of inflammation. Yeah. So to me, that's where we start thinking root cause. And this is when you you start differentiating yourself from like as a practitioner, then it's like, okay, I don't want to just give you a don't get me wrong, band-aids are great. If you're bleeding, you need a band-aid, right? But long term, how do we get this person feeling better so that they can be functional when they're 60s, 70s, and 80s? Yeah, that's the goal.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yeah, yeah, because like some people they can't even move. I see a lot of hand stuff, and you can't move your hands or anything like that. So yeah, so over time.

GLP-1 Boom And What Comes Next

SPEAKER_01 27:58

So like right now, you know, GLP ones are some of the, you know, uh some of the most popular things out there. Uh but there's a lot of new stuff coming out, and it's kind of crazy stuff. What what are your thoughts? What are some of the ones that you're seeing that are possibly coming up that are uh interesting to you?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Yeah, it's interesting. I just did a uh doing a lecture at a presentation next month, and I'll put this into it's cool because I get to kind of just hit a PowerPoint on this. This is cool. This is fresh. I kind of saw you had something too.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

I saw yeah, I saw I saw you were comparing two that I was new to.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

So there's you know what I'll put this first one in category one and category two, we'll talk

Personalized Peptides Through Genetic Testing

SPEAKER_00 28:44

more individual. So the first one is I believe in the next year or two, we're gonna start doing more individualized and custom kind of peptide, whether it be protocols or formulations, because if you think about genetics, you think about genetic variants, each almost every receptor in our body has a genetic variant to it. Or genetic, you know, it's a we have chromosomes to it, we have that that, you know, if I lack a better term here, like we have the it's not so much about the SNP that goes wrong, but it's like, okay, what is that genetic kind of I'm using uh my words are kind of escaped me. Thanks for this late podcast here. It's late. That's why I know that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

I try not to do late, but my brother's like, I can't do it anymore. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

So we so each peptide that binds to that receptor, that receptor has some genetic kind of programming to it, right? And if there's a genetic variant in that, how does that affect that that receptor, right? Does it affect how the peptide binds to it? Does it affect the downstream effects of it? Does it does it affect even if it is expressed, right? So that being said, if we know peptides bind to receptors, then by just almost medical common sense, there's a potential for there to be a genetic variant that affects how the peptide binds and works in the body. This is why, and it's not the only reason, but this is one of the reasons why you can take the same peptide as your brother, literally the same peptide, right? You might be like, this is amazing, and he might be like, dude, I didn't feel anything, right? Yeah, and you literally have the same parents, but your genomics are different. Yeah, some will be very similar, but some will be different. Yeah. So if that person has a variant, then it's like, wait a minute, maybe that's not the right peptide for you, or maybe we need to do a difference in the titration or the dosing or how we pair it. I think that is gonna be a game changer when that becomes more mainstream and it's getting more affordable too.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

I think in it's gonna be great if we can start with that. It's like, look, you want to do peptides, or I need to do this test. And now I walk in knowing maybe terzepatide isn't right for you because you have a GIP receptor variant, you might need to be on semaglutide or a different GLP one. Yeah, think about how many people have been on weight loss peptides, not just weight loss peptides, other peptides, and it's like they spend months like this isn't doing it.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Yeah, especially the GLP ones. Like you're like, all right, you check through their history and can't really find anything that should speak to that.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

But and some people are super responders, right? They're just wild type across the board. It's like they they're on like this little baby dose. And it's like I lost 30 pounds. It's like what? And then some people like, dude, I'm I'm barely moving the needle, right? And so that is a big piece of it, right? And it's not just in the GOPs and the weight loss, but we're finding variants in the way mitochondrial peptides are you know working in the body, and even some of the repair peptides and hair restoration peptides, like all these different immune system peptides. We're finding these variants, and uh, it's it's relatively new, but I think this is coming down the pipe fast.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah, that's why you know, like you know, 10x health has their genetic test or like there's all these genetic testing to give you your supplement that you need. Yeah, you know, some like SNP Nutri Genobit. I I tried their thing. Was it any different with the supplementation?

SPEAKER_00 31:56

You can't tell, it's just like supplements to yeah, and it's some we found some, you know, especially when it comes to looking at nutrients and vitamin D, we find that one big, whereas like some people like, why do you have vitamin D? And they'll say, I've had lifelong low vitamin D. And it turns out, well, you've got genetic variants in your vitamin D receptor or the way your body absorbs vitamin D or even activates vitamin D.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

That same concept to me is going to be applied to peptides. It's like, well, what if we can know from day one? It's like not saying you shouldn't do BPC 157. Maybe instead of doing 200 micrograms, you might need 500 micrograms because of the way your MMP variants are and how your, you know, how your body reacts to it, right? So even the way some of the inflammation snips are so to me, that is gonna be huge going forward. Yeah. Because that could be game changer for so many people. Now, the only thing is time, and I'm I'm just realistic about it because like if someone comes and it's like, look, I've got this injury, I've got this, I've got that. Yeah, obviously, you do your foundational work. Yeah, sometimes it's like, well, all right, man, I know you're in pain right now, but I gotta do this genetic test, it'll take me three to four weeks. You just hold on, right? So may not be the right answer across the board, but I think the speed of it is a thing. And what maybe there are ways to get a person started and then kind of come back around to so I gotta find out from one of my friends.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

I I don't know if like how quickly they get it, but it's blue jeans. It the this company is gonna blow up because what they're doing is doing the genetic testing, but then it goes towards like you know, they're testing out. Um, I don't know if there's an NDA on this, but like so they do the genetic testing and then they test you against like different medications, even like anti-platelet medications. Like, you know, for some person that they might have a genetic mutation that Plavix isn't gonna work, they're gonna clot off even on Plavix. So, you know, like your doctor or surgeon writes for Plavvix, and then you know, the it's a way that AI can actually deny it, so they put you on the right medication. So you're not just taking Plavvix and it's not actually gonna work uh because you got some genetic mutation. And that's all across the board for different medications and like specially that goes specially to like opiates and like pain medications and stuff, too. So that's a big one.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

So I think from a how we practice with peptides, I think that's a one that's down the pipe. And the company that I full disclosure, like I'm in discussion to join the medical advisory board is called TPL Genetics, so the peptide list genetics, and the test is already available, it's only available to practitioners, so you have to be a doctor to order it, and so you know, order for your patient, get the uh the report back, and it'll it's I think last time I looked, it was like 250 pages of genetics in there. There's some pre it's a lot to sort through, right? Yeah, but once you it's like learning a new language. I remember the first time I did like a uh genetics test or genomics test for like longevity and looking for different chronic disease markers. I was like, I don't know what this is. Or even the microbiome. Oh my god, I don't know. What do we do? All the shit in there. Yeah, now it's like I'm just I'm like speaking of, I was just randomly throwing out SNPs. I'm like, oh yeah, it's a you know, it's like you're just like, oh, it's their C CXCL, it might be their, you know, TNF, and you're just you're you're going through this language thing and pea par gammas, and people are just like, what are you talking about? It's like, oh yeah, it's like once you get it, you see it a few times, it gets so much better. Yeah. Now for peptides up that I feel are going to have a place in the next two years.

Retatrutide And Mitochondrial Peptides Explained

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Um, you know, obviously the triple agonist or rather true tide or retrotidismus, you know, however you want to say it. That I think this it's hitting, I think it's hitting towards phase three. And I think the plan now is it should be get released, hey, released like as a movie, um, but be available Q1 2027. But there is this current, I don't know if you guys have talked about it on the podcast about the manufacturer is trying to classify it as biologic.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Yeah, and we didn't talk about it, but yeah, I I didn't research it quite, but like I wasn't understanding where they were coming at. Yeah, so it's about the number of amino acids, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:01

So above, I believe, 43 amino acids, it can be you know considered a biological medication. Yeah, it that takes it out of the peptide game completely, right? It becomes this is what happened with ACG. Like used to be ACG, it was you can get it compounded, it got classified as a biological medication, and that was it, right? So now you have to get it from a manufacturer, you know, it can't be compounded because of that. That happens, then you know, Red Up becomes something that will not be accessible to any practitioners, even compound pharmacies, you have to get it from the manufacturer. And there are discussions, you know, depending on what side of the fence you're on, it's like, okay, well, is this a financial move, a business move? Like, look, we this is gonna be the blockbuster weight loss medication. We do not want people compounding it. Yeah, okay. I see where your fight is, but yeah, will it be affordable for people? What if a person has what if they get GI side effects from it and I want to add B6 to it or something like a glycine or something like then? We don't have that option. Yeah. But from what we're seeing in the studies, the weight loss, I mean, I'm seeing things like 28, 30% above weight loss or you know, over that period of time over a year, yeah. A1C reduction, pain reduction, fatty liver. Like I saw this month, it was insane. That was, I think it was like an 80% reduction in uh fatty liver, which I was like, is this my my I had to like do a double take, rub my eyes, like am I reading this right? That's that's insane, especially people dealing with fatty liver and how difficult that is to turn around. Yeah. So that one, because of that third agonist, the glucagon receptor agonist, it increases energy expenditure, right? So it's basically like turning up the heat on a thermostat, right? And so when you look at some of the preliminarm studies on it, and it was really cool, like the charts, it's like, well, they take one chart and it's like, okay, you're going to eat, you know, you have your placebo, they're eating, you know, the same. Then you have your next trial, like they're going to decrease their calories, and then okay, we're going to decrease our calories on retatrode, and you see the weight loss measures were significantly lower, yeah, plus retatride. Yeah. And the other one, you know, where it's like, okay, well, you have someone who eats less calorie and you see their energy expenditure decrease, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

And then you have placebo, they're eating, you know, it was like crazy. And then they had the third wing was like, okay, this person reduced their calories and they're on retatrotide. The energy expenditure was the same as someone eating the same amount of calories. Like, that's wild when it comes to you know weight loss and fat loss as well. And so I think that one is gonna be huge in you know, in the next year or so.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

The second one on my list, it's a it's a peptide that's available, but it's only you know specifically approved for barf syndrome. It's SS31.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

I want to uh man, it's like it's LM L L primatide or Letide. L pramatide. L primatide. You can edit that shit out. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

SS31. Oh, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Um, SS31 mitochondrial peptide, it's synthetic. We don't make it, yeah. But SS31, it hones in on the mitochondria and binds to uh what's called the cardiolipin in the mitochondria. And it's basically this the that fat that holds the inner mitochondria crisp together.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

And so someone with mitochondrial dysfunction, if that is dysfunctional damage, then the mitochondria doesn't function as well. So it's almost like a structural engineer or a repair crew.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

So it's gonna go in there, you know, bind a cardiolipin, help repair that inner mitochondrial membrane, that functions better, the mitochondria make less oxidative stress. And oxidative stress is a driver of aging.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

But when you look at some of these earlier the bar Bar syndrome, a specific condition, but when you look at some of the translational studies and even studies that are in the pipeline on cardiovascular health, yeah, kidney function, right? And this is that could be a game changer for so many people.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

But when you look at how people are using it in like the biohacking longevity space, athletic performance, endurance, energy, like all these pretty cool things, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

And as we get older, we have more mitochondrial dysfunction. Yeah. So I don't I don't think this is a peptide for someone that's like an athlete in their 20s, like, okay, you're you're good. Yeah, you're good here, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:02

I know. Because like just peptides in general, for unless you're injured, I like in your 20s, I until you get into like late 20s, 30s, or you've had like terrible health all along, you know. Like I I don't think, you know, I I have young guys coming to me. I'm like, unless you have an injury, like I wouldn't put you on any of the you you should be signed like.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Look, I don't remember what it's like to be 20 anymore, to be honest with you. As it's so far in the rearview mirror, it's like I just I just remember eating like shit and working out and looking and feeling amazing. That's my only memory. Is I can eat whatever I wanted and like be like I'm going to the beach tomorrow and I was all good, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Yeah, I played college football and I used to go eat and work out and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

It was like it was it was amazing. And I also don't know like how did I have so much time? Like I remember like going to like play basketball after work. I was in the Navy, like I go hoop for like two or three hours, somehow eat dinner, yeah, somehow go play video games and still get sleep. Like, how did I have that much time?

SPEAKER_01 41:07

I don't have like I think sleep's become more important over the past few years. It used to be like because even Dave Asprey used to say, Oh, you sleep when you die. You only need three to five hours, right? That's what that's what he used to say. That's a young man's game.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Yeah. Um, but the where I'm going with this is it because is it because with the young guys, it's like it's the motivation to work out. Like, hey, I'm about to get on CJC Epimorland, I'm about to get on these peptides. Yeah, now I'm going to work out harder because I'm on these peptides. And it's like, well, dude, you're 22. If you just did that same workout and ate healthy, you probably would do just as well.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Unless you have some type of pituitary dysfunction or variant where you don't make enough growth hormone. Yeah, maybe you got me there, but I'm like, you're young, dude. Just work out, man.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Just you know, how do you compare SS31 to MOTC?

SS-31 Vs MOTS-c And Mitochondria Strategy

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Good one. So MOTC is improving mitochondrial function. We also make MOTC on our own, right? And so MODC, mitochondrial peptide, is producing a mitochondria. It, you know, kind of translates from the mitochondria to the nucleus under stress, right? Whether that be oxidative, you know, inflammatory stress, you know, different types of cellular stress that exists. And when it, you know, when we use MOD C, we think about is it a energy thing? Even though I don't really see a lot of energy boosting with MODC, I see athletic performance. I see people saying they have more, they get better workouts, they feel like Superman in the gym.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Um, you'll see improvements in their metabolic function, metabolic flexibility, how their, you know, insulin sensitivity, you see these great things with Mod C. But when you're thinking about Mod C, Mod C is to me, like there's a great debate of what is the chicken of chicken or the egg? Do you do SS31 first or Mod C first? Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

To me, I'm always thinking about if someone is, and I literally had a discussion with this, someone earlier, it's like, okay, well, look, do you want to start with Mod C or S S31? Yeah. And I always feel like if I don't see these kind of symptoms of mitochondrial dysfunction, a big one. If you're like, I feel, we talked about it earlier, I feel crappy. I feel tired. And this is after they've started on things, right? They've started on peptides, you gave them all the cool supplements, they're starting to sleep a little bit better, they're doing the things, and it's like, dude, I still feel like crap. Yeah. Start thinking mitochondria, right? Yeah. And so if someone's in that position, they're like, should I do SS31 or Mont C, I'm probably gonna say SS31.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Because maybe we need to go on fixing the structure of the mitochondria before we start trying to put it in overdrive, right? It's almost like if you have a car, all right, and it's like, hey, I am going to put some type of turbo booster in your engine. We're gonna step on the gas, but the the engine's got a crack in it, right? So you put that turbo booster on it, you might feel worse, right? Or the car may perform worse because you're trying to drive it before it's ready.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

And so I always think about mod C as secondary to that, right? You can push Mod C if the engine is working well.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

That's a big one right there. Yeah. You know, so that's usually how I like to do it.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

And okay. Um you know, online I saw, you know, something came up as GLP four, and I was like, what is this? So it it didn't quite make sense. But like when I read up into it, so they were adding IGF to what Reditrutide does already. And that's actually, I think Lily has a drug that they're in testing with IGF to keep the muscle mass. Have you heard of it?

SPEAKER_00 44:36

No, I haven't, but I I was lecturing at a conference last year and I was like, I had a little moment, what will they think of next? Right? The next GOP four and five. And yeah, I was trying to predict the next pathway.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

I thought it was gonna be AMPK. Yeah, because AMPK activation, you know, you turn that on, you'll you know, pull more glucose into the muscle and you know, burn more stored fat, so to speak. And I was like, oh, this might be the next one. Like, what's the next pathway gonna be? And I didn't know they'd go after IGF one. That's interesting, yeah. Because if if we're just stacking pathways, I mean it kind of makes sense, right? But I'm a little, I don't know about the IGF one, man, because IGF one can be great for a lot of people, but it is insulin-like growth factor, right? So if you're pushing that pathway too hard too fast, can it throw off your insulin sensitivity, right? Can it throw off your blood sugar, right? So that's why amazing peptide for body composition. I really like it for healing and recovery too, helps with muscle healing, but it's also not a long-term peptide. Yeah, so I'm not gonna say, hey, you got a weight loss medication and GOP4, do IgF1 every single day. That's concerning.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Yeah, so it's an oral, there it's an oral peptide that they're actually it or yeah, that they're thinking of coming. Well, Lily is that it theirs is oral form, but you got to take it every day.

IGF-1 And The Growth Hormone Pathway

SPEAKER_01 45:54

So um, but yeah, look, I was gonna ask you about you know the whole growth hormone pathway. What are your thoughts on growth hormone IgF1? Because, like, you know, I used to hear a lot in the peptide world about IgF one, then you know, it kind of drops off. I've used it, I've cycled on and off of it um every so often. I I like the it's usually like if I'm going on a beach vacation, you get like you get the pumps, you look better, and and then it all goes away. So I'm like, should I be doing this?

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Yeah, yeah. IGF 1 is uh I'm starting to use it a little bit more in healing protocols, yeah, right? Because you think about IGF 1 increasing protein synthesis and we that muscle repair piece of it, right? And IGF 1, um, for those most people at this point know, it's like I feel like back in the day I had to always explain what every single peptide did at this point. Well, IGF 1 is the so you think about the pathway, your hypothalamus is gonna release that GHRase growth hormone releasing hormone that binds to receptors on the pituitary gland, you release growth hormone. Yeah, that growth hormone, you know, travels in circulation, binds to receptors on the liver, the liver releases IGF-1. The IGF 1 is like the workhorse, right?

SPEAKER_03 47:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

So growth hormone is kind of, in many ways, it's kind of like the supervisor, right? It's like, hey, I need to tell the liver what to do. The IGF-1 is doing that anabolic work, whether it's building muscle, repair, uh, healing, you know, lipolysis, fat loss, you know, all these things that IGF 1 is doing. So the the concept is like, well, can you give someone direct IGF 1 and kind of bypass the growth hormone pathway to increase those anabolic processes? And the answer is in some ways yes, right? Yeah. So the the what you'll see in the peptide space is more IGF-1 LR3. So they modify it, right? So they add an R they make a modification, they add an arginine to one of the um amino acid kind of um locations there, and it increases one. The the biggest thing is increases the half-life, right? So it increases the half-life from a matter of minutes to around 30 hours, right? And when that happens, what we're thinking about the IGF one doing now from a body composition standpoint, it's all those processes, building muscle, burning fat. Yeah. Being able to, you know, it's like the the bodybuilder's dream building muscle and burning fat at the same time. Great. From a healing perspective, again, it's that same pathway of um, you know, anabolic processes, but that muscle building piece, because especially after surgeries, right? So I'm big on post-surgical recovery. You know, you got BPC, thymus and beta four, TB500, but the IGF-1, I like to add that in there too, because you have, especially if you're doing an incision, you got to heal the muscle, right? Yeah. You want that to be.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

And that's what I was gonna ask you, too, is like for recovery, what are your thoughts on, you know, like there's the wolverine sac oral form versus you know, injectable whether, you know, one of the big issues is in like after orthopedic surgery, maybe they'll be willing to inject themselves, but injecting themselves daily with like a peptide. I know they like we do blood thinners, but you know, doing peptides um every day, that's kind of gonna be tough. Is the oral form just gonna be as good for or not as good, but good enough?

Post-Surgery Healing Protocols That Work

SPEAKER_00 49:16

I for a post-surgical recovery, I'm always gonna lean more towards the inject, yeah. One because I can be a little bit higher in the dosing. Yeah, right. One is there's always the risk of someone's got a you know horrible gut function. It's like even though it's oral, how much is going to get absorbed and be bioavailable because they've got a you know, they've got this kind of cesspool of a gut, right? For lack of a better term, because of the microbiome. Now, the injectable one, I'm able to do higher dosing of it. And from what I've seen clinically, I've just seen better surgical recovery. If, especially right after, you know, acute surgical protocol, we're doing higher doses of BPC 157, yeah, higher doses of TB500 a times to beta four, higher doses of GHK copper, yeah, higher doses of IGF 1. Now, this isn't forever, this may be for that first two to four weeks, because that's that prime window where I want your body to kind of be in a more accelerated healing process. Now, after that, you can you know back the dosing down, the frequency down, but that first two to four weeks, that's crucial, right? And it's really cool when the patient is like, man, I talked to my surgeon, they're like shocked in how fast I heal. They're expecting a four to six month recovery, and it's like I'm functional in two to three months. That's huge, right? But it's not a miracle, it's not gonna happen. You're not gonna like have surgery and it's like, okay, I'm back running a marathon next week. But if you can get back to function faster, yeah, why wouldn't you do that?

SPEAKER_01 50:39

Yeah, like we, you know, for all our you know, cash pay patients, they get the oral wolverine stack. And it kind of helps them with like pain control and getting more up and active a lot quicker. Um, and the healing process, I think they do a lot better. So when you say like the oral wolverine, you're talking like the BPC with like a Tv4 frag, or is that yeah, I I get the level up because I was like Australian brand, probably like that. Yeah, so I I I just think well, I tried their ultimate GI repair, and I really think that thing's like a gut bomb, and it's and like um New BioAge used to have the mix with Larazzotide KPV and uh you know BPC and stuff, but they got rid of it and their blend's pretty good. And like if my gut feels bad at all, I like take that and it's like cleaned up. So yeah, I was like their Wolverine stack, so yeah, I use their Wolverine stack um right now.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Yeah, they have um with new biowage, they have uh can we we say brand? We can say brand, right? They have the Regenites, which is a the BPC 157 CB4 frag. Um, there's another company I use as well. They have a um uh there's this Liptal, sorry, Liptality, very similar, right? And uh, but those are great protocols for obviously, like if you you know someone who's traveling, right? I think big for travel. Yeah, and you can do it multiple times a day depending on the recovery. So I think those are good for people as well. Again, I love injectable, but yeah, not everyone has access to injectable peptides, depending on the state you're in, depending on a lot of factors, and even cost-wise, maybe a little bit less expensive to do the oral form. So there's a lot of great options for it. Yeah, and it's like, hey, that is been a again, it's not a ton of studies on doing this this oral protocol, but if you're looking at the person, they're injured, they're in pain, they're under high inflammation, and we do this, and I see the subjective and objective markers improve, then that's great.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

And what are your thoughts on the blends versus doing individual like BPC TB 500 versus getting like a Wolverine

Peptide Blends Versus Custom Dosing

SPEAKER_01 52:48

blend?

SPEAKER_00 52:48

You know, I used to be so anti-blend. Oh, dude, I was on a crusade against blends. I was like, no blends. I was, you know, I'm marching, no, no, it was marching in protest. Yeah, like I've been doing this is crazy, right? And I was like, oh, are you making a Frankenstein peptide? And it's like there's a you know, the amide in the carboxylin, you put it in the is it gonna do, I don't know what's going on. Then I was so against it. And yeah, you know, I've softened my stance for a few reasons why there have been more um stability testing done. Okay, well, they have the blends and it's like, okay, you know, in two weeks, four weeks, yeah, what's the viability of the BPC or TV4, TV 500, GHK copper in the vial? And they're showing that it's been pretty steady, pretty stable, right? So that was eye-opener for me. It's like, okay, I know it's not making some peptide. It used to be a theory that the copper was at a different pH than the BPC and TV four. And what is that going to change the solution pH? If that changes it, is that gonna change the efficacy of the BPC or the TB500? Turns out maybe not, yeah, right, which is good. And I have had patients, you know, like, oh, I I tried this, and I'm one of those people, uh, you're probably the same way as like I try everything. It's like, you know, let me try this. That's in bed. Like, okay, you guys might be on to something here, right? And now, and none of the pharmacies were making it. They were doing BPC 157 with Diamonds and Beta 4. Yeah, but now a lot of the far compound pharmacies are doing the blends, they're doing the BPC with TB500 or with all three. Clow, the glow. Yeah, clow. I'm having gotten to clo yet. And so my only if I do have a bone to pick, if you will, is like sometimes as a practitioner, what if I want to do a little bit more BPC? Yeah. Or I want to do a little bit more GHK copy.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Yeah, that's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

And now I'm stuck with this blend, I I lose that flexibility in the dosing. Yeah, that's probably the biggest downside because some people might need more of one of the three or four things in the box.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

Yeah, if like I got an acute injury myself, I might inject with the blend, but I'll go at that site with the BPC exactly or the BPC TV 500.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

You know, and it's convenient, right? Yeah, some people, you know, look, I'm kind of a glad for punishment, dude. Like I've never seen a needle I didn't like, right? So I'm okay with that. Yeah. But some people, it's like, dude, if I really want to inject myself with four different things, uh it gets exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

It does get because when I first started like six years ago, it was like, you know, when you're on your some cycles, it's like eight injections in the morning, four in the four at night, and you're like, Do I really need to be doing this? Yeah, but I did get better and I felt great. So I was like, you know, but then you know, you just like you distance yourself from it. You you don't do it all the time, you just cycle it.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Needle fatigue is real. Like I've got needle fatigue, I was like, dude, I'm just tired, I need a break, you know, and it happens.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

Yeah, right now I just stay on CJC epimorin for a while. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Solid, solid. Yeah, you know, the growth hormone peptides you're saying earlier, like they man, they had a I I love to say they had a moment. I think every peptide has a moment where it's just like it's your time in the sun, and for a while, CJCE 1295 and epimoralin, it was like everyone's like, oh, it's like, and I think it's still a great peptide, but you know, some people I keep yeah, I have such genetics nerd. Like some people didn't work as well.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Is it because they have a genetic variant in the receptors, or is because or is it because sometimes it's really that whole you need to be on an empty stomach is a challenge for some people. Oh, yeah. It's like especially if you work late, it's like you're supposed to do it at nighttime.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

I I just do it in the morning because that's you have to be on an empty stomach because when you eat, your body, you know, you increase insulin.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

That insulin is going to cause an increase in somatastatin. Literally, that that peptide is not going to do anything. Like it's not. There's no your body has no reason for you to release more growth hormone when you already have, excuse me, you already have an insulin spot surge, right? So that can be a challenge for people as well. And so I still think it's an amazing peptide. I still think it has benefits, but I also think some people do better from an you know, from a body composition standpoint when they inject it twice a day, yeah, or multiple times a day. Yeah. So I think that's what I used to do when I first started. Yeah. There's an art form to it, man. I feel like there's a there's an artfulness to peptides just like there's an art to hormones. Yeah, there's an artfulness to plastic surgery, right? It's not just, you know, this caveman take a peptide and oh, you're gonna feel amazing. Like, how do you do that in a way that's best for the person? Yeah, and that's where one seeing a lot of patients, understanding the science, understanding the pathways, I don't think there's a substitute for that.

Where To Get Peptides Without Regret

SPEAKER_01 57:22

Yeah, you know. I just wanted to ask about um about where do you get your your peptides from? Because there's a lot of people gonna black market. Um, you know, what's the best way to get your peptides?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

So I just man, I got so many cool little videos going on. I feel like I'm about to just cause this ruckus on the internet. Well, for me, like I am always going to want to get peptides from a compound pharmacy. Yes. Because one, it's like there's accountability there. I know they're doing the testing, the quality should be there. Yeah. And as a practitioner, if I, for lack of a term, if I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna give you a research grade peptide, and if something, anything goes wrong, yeah, and you have a reaction and I have to go in front of my board and they're like, this is a research peptide, like I can't justify that, right? Yeah, and I think it's safety for the patient. And look, the reality is, is are all compound pharmacies created equal? Some are doing higher quality than others, right? That's true. Just like I'm gonna be very open about this, there are research great peptide companies doing quality that would be the same as a compound pharmacy, right? But as a practitioner, like I have to be careful with that, right? I have to be mindful of that, and that's something I have to keep in mind.

SPEAKER_03 58:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

So that being said, from a practitioner standpoint, I want to do like compound quality peptides here because there have been some studies. I know these are shitty peptide companies where they've tested the vial, it didn't have the right peptide in there or it lacked the peptide in there, it was a different, you know, concentration, different all these things. Like, I don't want to do that to a person, right? And what if there's a contamination, right? Yeah. So for me, I am always gonna want to get my peptides from a compound pharmacy. And you know, there's great debates in that. Again, you get hammered online as a doctor. It's like, oh, well, you're charging a two. I love this one. You're charging a thousand times markup. I was like, damn, I was charging a thousand times markup, man. I'd be driving a Ferrari right now.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Like, I have to it's the research peptide sites that are charging, they're getting it for about three dollars and selling it for 95. And it's like, oh, and you don't even know the dosing. That's uh that's one of the big things that people don't know. Like you get your CJC of Pomoran, they charge you 65 bucks, but it might be your week's

Final Thoughts And Wrap-Up

SPEAKER_01 59:40

worth or maybe three days' worth. But at least you don't even know.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

And it's convenient, you don't have to see a doctor, you just order it, deliver it to your door. And I get I get it, but at the same time, I am always gonna stand up for doing these things the right way with a practitioner, is why we took the oath to help protect our patients, you know. Yeah. Patient safety. Yes, all right. That's it. It's been great. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, man. It's always cool too.